Video transcript: Traumatic bereavement in schools: a young person’s perspective

The video can be found on the 6-point support plan for schools and colleges page here.

Beck Ferrari:

Hello Liv. It’s really good of you to meet with me today and have a think about traumatic bereavement experiences for young people. You and I have known each other and I was your child bereavement specialist back when your dad sadly died some years ago.

So can I take you kind of back to the beginning of a journey for a young person — that first that return to school and thinking about what it might be like for a young person where something so difficult has happened and then they’re returning back into school. Whether it’s the next day or two or the next week or so or even some sometime later down the line. And i wonder what you could help us think about in schools?

Olivia:

Yeah absolutely. It’s very, very daunting that was my first thought was coming back into secondary school at that point, so you know thousands of people. And coming back, walking through the gate in that first morning back and it’s: “Okay, this is who I am now?” But as far as I’m aware, nobody knows that. So it’s really that kind of walking in and not knowing what to expect. Not knowing who knows already who doesn’t and what’s waiting there for you support wise. It’s just it’s a lot for a young person definitely to take in that soon after that’s happened. It’s kind of back to normal, but not at the same time.

Beck Ferrari:

So even though your mum had let your school know what had happened, it was difficult for you because you didn’t know who knew.

Olivia:

Yeah. I walked in, went straight to my first lesson, and my first teacher didn’t even really mention it. So as far as I was aware, I was like okay, no one knows. I just have to kind of go back to how it was before. At first, I thought that, you know, that might be great to just carry on like normal. But, you very quickly realized that, even though you’ve never dealt with that before, you know that you need a support network. You know that you need somebody at least there to say: “Okay, this is what we’re going to do.”

Beck Ferrari:

Then I’m thinking, what was that like then for you having to carry that around, if members of staff don’t feel confident to mention to you? To ask you how you are or to find out anything about how you’re getting on or what support you need?

Olivia:

It’s really hard because I had obviously never dealt with this before, like most people who have been through traumatic improvement, they have no experience of this. And, I was 13, but I assumed that my teachers would come up to me and say: “Hey, we know this has happened. How can we help you? Or this is what we’re gonna do from experience.” But, everyone kind of avoided it. I don’t know if it was them thinking that if they avoided it, then I would come to them when I needed to and it was them trying to give me space? But I kind of just read it as, okay, this is something you need to deal with yourself. A few of my friends knew, but that was pretty much it. And it was hard walking around with this on my shoulders kind of just thinking that I had to carry on with it, so that I didn’t make other people uncomfortable by bringing it up. That was kind of the position that it put me in — don’t bring it up because it’s awkward for others, which is hard when you’re a kid and you’re surrounded by adults who you think would come to comfort you.

Beck Ferrari:

So you’re managing then on a day-to-day basis, going in and out of lessons, get on with your work the best you can, and do everything that’s asked of you. And schools, I can imagine, what you said there, and not wanting to make it worse. Thinking: “We better not mention it, she’ll come to us and if she wants some support.” But for you, that just left you feeling a bit lonely carrying that. Would that be?

Olivia:

Yeah, definitely. Because you’ve been through this and you’re dealing with it but it’s still very fresh and you don’t necessarily want to walk up to someone and say: “Hi, my name’s Liv.

This has just happened to me. Can I talk to you about it?” Because you never know what someone’s reaction’s going to be and you don’t know if they’ve suffered for something and they’re not comfortable. So, waiting for someone to come to you just makes it that bit easier. It wasn’t actually until I started seeing you that I had a support network that I had. Someone I could talk to. I looked forward to our sessions because I knew that that was the time that I could talk to someone. But, unfortunately the second the hour and a half finished, it was straight back to normal and it was almost made me feel guilty for taking that time. I remember sometimes I’d have to schedule – to miss lessons and I would try and miss the least important lessons like PE or something where I wasn’t then harming my education. But I was still made to feel as if, do you really need this? Do you really need this time? Teachers just weren’t really understanding that kids in these situations need help. And it’s not like they ever offered because I genuinely don’t think they ever had the resource. So, I brought someone in for my benefit, but it still made me feel as if, you know, are you sure you can’t do this by yourself? So, that was hard.

Beck Ferrari:

Can you think about, obviously the primary curriculum, but the secondary curriculum particularly has has lots of potential activities and lessons and things that that can be more difficult to manage. I wonder where you can talk a little bit about what schools might want to think about when they’re planning activities and lessons.

Olivia:

Yeah definitely. Obviously, you know, they have set things that they have to do, but if they know that a child has been through something quite traumatic, it can be helpful just to pull them aside and say: “Hey, look, today we’re doing this but are you comfortable with that?” Is there another way that you can study it? Is there another way that you can do the work without having to really focus on that specific thing? And again, that didn’t really happen to me my first day back. We were doing a poetry anthology and the poem my teacher had picked was about someone whose father passed away. I remember her just looking at me and saying: “Oh, are you okay with this?” And I said: “No, not really.” And she told me just to go and sit in the hallway. There was no kind of thing in place — well let’s find you something else to do. It was sit in the hallway with your thoughts on it, but not get it out, not process it. That was really hard because it just made me realize in that moment that, okay, the curriculum is not going to change for you. I think it should be flexible in that sense to understand that not every single kid that’s been through a traumatic movement is going to be that resilient that quickly.

Beck Ferrari:

Thank you. That must have been really tough to have to make a quick decision about are you staying in the lesson or are you going outside. What would your suggestions be to staff if they suddenly realise, actually this lesson I’m not sure, maybe this is going to have some difficult content for one of our pupils? (Do) you’ve got some kind of suggestions of what you think might be helpful for them to do?

Olivia:

Yeah definitely. First thing, first pull the child aside and say: “Look, this is what we’re doing.” Because at the same time they might be comfortable doing it and if you change it when they might have been happy to do it, that also might feel like them being excluded, if that makes sense. Sometimes children don’t want to deal with the traumatic parts of say literature or something but other times actually it might be kind of cathartic and help them. So, I think giving them that choice and not making them feel as if they should pick a certain way – really trying to influence them to, you should do it and just understanding that they’re not trying to get out of doing the lesson. They’re not trying to get out of doing that subject. That it’s really, really hard for them. So again, I think just talking to them on that level and kind of treating them like a person – that they’re not doing this for any other reason than their own emotions.

Beck Ferrari:

And then I wonder whether we can think about whether there’s anything about relationships with staff and how that was. Or relationships with friends or peers. I don’t know if there are things that we can learn and take forward in in day-to-day life for young people?

Olivia:

Yeah definitely. I mean, like I said, I kind of went back in and all of these teachers that I didn’t know seemed to know what had happened. I guess looking at that in a positive way, that teachers that did know went round and kind of warned them and let them know: “Okay, so this student has been through this, if you see them just know this. Because it is helpful to know if they have to cover a class, if they see you outside of lessons. But, I think some of them then didn’t know what to do with that information. So, they’d see you and they’d kind of give you a look or they’d come up and ask you how you are. And it’s like, if you don’t know who they are already, it’s quite daunting. And they think they’re being helpful, but it is also that thing of like the relationships that teachers have with their students. I know that I had one teacher who I was really close to and I was able to talk to her about these problems kind of whenever I had them and she never pushed on it, she never told anyone else. You know really kept that between us. But I think teachers should be aware and it doesn’t upset me that every single teacher knew because I think that is important for them to be aware of it because they run into you in the hallway, they see you upset if they cover a lesson. If they have no idea what’s going on, that’s kind of them setting themselves up for failure – for not being aware of that. But I think knowing when to approach someone that’s been through that is the key to it.

Beck Ferrari:

I picked up for you it was more helpful when it was members of staff you already knew and had a kind of a trusted relationship with.

Olivia:

Yeah, already knew me for who I was before this happened to me. Whereas teachers that didn’t know me before, as far as I was aware, this was the whole of my identity that they knew. They only knew me as the child that had been bereaved. It’s not necessarily a negative thing, but it also doesn’t take into who I am as a person and all the things I have that make me “me”. They didn’t know that, so they’d only see me as, you know, this sad child that had been through this traumatic thing. Whereas the teachers I already knew and had relationships with, they knew the things I enjoyed. They knew my emotions. Knew my personality. It was a lot easier to talk to them because they knew who I was. They knew when I was off, when I wasn’t, and when I was having a bad day for a different reason rather than just assuming that everything kind of came back to that.

Beck Ferrari:

That’s really important. Really helpful for us to think about the way we build relationships with young people after they’ve been bereaved and build on the relationships we’ve already had. Is there anything you might mention regarding friends, peers or anything that you think that’d be helpful for schools to be aware of?

Olivia:

I think it’s a hard thing to approach class peers, for example, because I definitely, after it happened, wasn’t in a position where I wanted you know my 30 classmates to know. But at the same time, I think it might have been helpful for them to have known, you know ,just the basics: that this happened, this kind of bereavement happened. Nothing more. Just so they knew because it was a big thing when I would disappear from lessons, if I was having a hard day or if I was having a counselling session. It would leave a lot of questions. And obviously social media had started becoming a thing so I had friends on there and classmates on there and it leaves room for a lot of questions as well that teachers aren’t equipped to answer and it can put teachers in a really hard position where they don’t know what they can and cannot say. If a peer had gone up to all my teachers and said: “Well, where’s Liv?” That would have put them in a really hard situation of: do I say something? Do I not say something? And I think that adds to the struggle in the relationships that sometimes they then don’t approach you to talk to you because they really don’t want to overstep the boundaries that they think have been put in place.

I definitely think that maybe assemblies should be put in place when we do hard subjects that bring up things like bereavement and loss. I definitely think that there should be some kind of education around that that. Hey, you might be sat next to someone who has gone through that and you might never know or they might talk about it openly and that’s completely personal, but it happens and it’s a very normal thing. Because when it when it happened to me, I didn’t know anyone else that it happened to.

So, as far as I was aware, I was the only one in this kind of huge school of people. And I think there were definitely other people this had happened to. I think just not knowing names but just someone saying to you: “Hey, you’re not the only one.” This is fine. It’s definitely a helpful thing that can be can be done in that situation.

Beck Ferrari:

Thank you, that’s super helpful. Lots of these things we haven’t got a clear cut answer. You must do it like this, so you must do it like that. But I’m really hearing from you, Liv, the importance of communication and if staff had felt, when staff are more able to ask what you think of your perspective and to find out from you, then they’re better placed than to support your friends and your classmates and answer their questions as well.

Olivia:

Yeah, I definitely think it’s that situation of let the child lead, you know, sit down, have a conversation with them and see where it goes because you might find that they’re really shut up in class and they don’t ever want to talk about it and they seem kind of off and you start talking to them about maybe just something they’re into. You might see them reading a book they like or doing something they enjoy and it can open up a whole world of things and everything can come out at that point. And you can build that relationship with them and you can help them without having to walk up to them and say: “Hey, I know your parent passed away. How do we help you?” You can do it in other ways. And I think opening up the communication is the key to it and not being afraid of talking about it, but also knowing that there are other ways to start that conversation.

Beck Ferrari:

Then it doesn’t always have to be a direct conversation. It might be through the root of something else and they already know about you to kind of build the communication, build a relationship.

Olivia:

Yeah absolutely. Let them know that you know that it hasn’t changed them and they are still who they were before. And children would definitely thank you for that.

Beck Ferrari:

Thank you, Liv. Thank you so much for giving us some of your insight today. I think that’s going to be really helpful for all adults in schools to have a think about, if there’s one more thing they could do to support a bereaved young person in their school. Thank you so much.

Olivia:

No anytime, thank you.

Learn more

This video transcript is part of a set of traumatic bereavement resources, which supports schools, colleges and practitioners working with children and young people.

You can download a guidebook for schools and colleges, a clinical guide for practitioners, watch explainer videos, and learn about the research here.